Capitol Punishment

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Capitol Punishment
Topic Started: Mar 10 2009, 12:47 PM (641 Views)
Four Elements	Mar 10 2009, 12:47 PM Post #1
Fourth Year Posts: 347 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: February 12, 2005	Do you agree with Capitol Punishment? Usually, I'd give a list of pros and cons, but I think these are a lot more obvious for this topic. Anyway, do you agree with the death penalty?



Count Carver	Mar 11 2009, 05:00 PM Post #2
Jedi Master of Making Things Sound Dirty Posts: 2,241 Group: Admin Member #5 Joined: December 31, 2004	Can't say I've ever understood the logic behind killing killers to show them that killing is wrong. Carver?
	-Carver?


andyundo	Mar 12 2009, 02:45 PM Post #3
Photographer/Lover Extraordinaire Posts: 212 Group: Members Member #61 Joined: January 25, 2009	good point carver. However... i'd allow it for serial killers. Crimes of passion could be punished with less draconian but still strict measures, like a certain number of years in prison. But then again it all depends on the situation of the murder.... I honestly wouldnt feel right about a legal system that lets serial killers get back into society, no matter how many years after they made their killings. I mean, they did it once, they could do it again.
	http://andyundo.tumblr.com/ <-- My photoblog! Andy is in love... ish...?


Count Carver	Mar 12 2009, 08:01 PM Post #4
Jedi Master of Making Things Sound Dirty Posts: 2,241 Group: Admin Member #5 Joined: December 31, 2004	andyundo Mar 12 2009, 01:45 PM I honestly wouldnt feel right about a legal system that lets serial killers get back into society, no matter how many years after they made their killings. I mean, they did it once, they could do it again. Then lock them up forever! A million life sentences, no chance at ever seeing the light of day again. I honestly don't feel right about a legal system that executes innocent people. Even if most are guilty, there's too much of a chance at a boo-boo. And if you make a mistake.........killing someone is the one punishment that can't be undone. You can set a man free or return punitive damages, but you can't unkill an innocent person who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Carver?
	-Carver?


Matt Perry	Mar 12 2009, 10:01 PM Post #5
Legendary Posts: 2,342 Group: Admin Member #32 Joined: February 12, 2005	I don't see a better form of punishment than this... I mean.. Carver makes the point that he doesn't see the point in killing a man that killed another man to teach the man that killing is wrong... Well, yeah, that's cool. But what stops the man from killing again? And then you get into this debate about whether or not it's fine to hold a man for 60 years, and spend thousands of dollars a year on that single man to continue to live. I just dunno, I say keep it rather than abolish it. v_v;



Count Carver	Mar 13 2009, 06:03 PM Post #6
Jedi Master of Making Things Sound Dirty Posts: 2,241 Group: Admin Member #5 Joined: December 31, 2004	Matt Perry Mar 12 2009, 09:01 PM Well, yeah, that's cool. But what stops the man from killing again? And then you get into this debate about whether or not it's fine to hold a man for 60 years, and spend thousands of dollars a year on that single man to continue to live. The process of getting someone executed actually costs more than holding them in prison for life, so the cost argument is false. What no one else has address though: What about innocent people who get wrongly convicted? Carver?
	-Carver?


andyundo	Mar 14 2009, 08:39 AM Post #7
Photographer/Lover Extraordinaire Posts: 212 Group: Members Member #61 Joined: January 25, 2009	no, no, no that's impossible. A few liters of chemicals can't be more expensive than a lifetime of food and board. And well, for the wrongfully convicted... the odds of being wrongfully accused are rather slim for ordinary citizens... only if you are involved in shady businesses then your chances of being wrongfully accused might increase.
	http://andyundo.tumblr.com/ <-- My photoblog! Andy is in love... ish...?


Four Elements	Mar 14 2009, 10:14 AM Post #8
Fourth Year Posts: 347 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: February 12, 2005	I agree with Carver, 100%. Two wrongs don't make a right. AND, the lethal injection itself is very cheap, apparently, but by putting someone on death row, there are thousands of dollars worth of court cases to fight, which cost more than just keeping the criminal locked up for life (we talked about this in RS). Also, I disagree with it because it's obviously not a deterrent; there are no less murders in states with the death penalty than in those without. I doubt when you're killing someone you think of the consequences until afterwards, when it's too late.



Count Carver	Mar 14 2009, 03:15 PM Post #9
Jedi Master of Making Things Sound Dirty Posts: 2,241 Group: Admin Member #5 Joined: December 31, 2004	andyundo Mar 14 2009, 07:39 AM no, no, no that's impossible. A few liters of chemicals can't be more expensive than a lifetime of food and board. And well, for the wrongfully convicted... the odds of being wrongfully accused are rather slim for ordinary citizens... only if you are involved in shady businesses then your chances of being wrongfully accused might increase. That is possibly the worst argument I've ever heard. It is ok to kill people because they were involved in "shady business??!!?" We aren't even talking about capital crimes now. Why don't we just institute the death penalty for everything, if that's the case. You won't be accused unless you are involved in shady business, after all. I wouldn't care if the odds were rather slim (which they aren't) that an ordinary citizen would be wrongly accused of a crime. This is state-sponsored murder we are talking about. We can't afford to take that chance. Are we not a nation of civilized people? (oh, sorry, dumb question) The only thing that increases your chance of being wrongly accused is the color of your skin. Four Elements Mar 14 2009, 09:14 AM AND, the lethal injection itself is very cheap, apparently, but by putting someone on death row, there are thousands of dollars worth of court cases to fight, which cost more than just keeping the criminal locked up for life (we talked about this in RS). Exactly. And not only the court costs of appeals, but simply the fact that inmates stay on Death Row for decades also incurs the same food and board costs that Andy was talking about, and probably at a higher cost too because Death Row inmates are kept isolated and such and not mixed in with the general prison population. Carver?
	-Carver?


Four Elements	Mar 16 2009, 12:46 PM Post #10
Fourth Year Posts: 347 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: February 12, 2005	Couldn't of put it better myself, Carver.



andyundo	Mar 27 2009, 01:15 PM Post #11
Photographer/Lover Extraordinaire Posts: 212 Group: Members Member #61 Joined: January 25, 2009	Count Carver Mar 14 2009, 10:15 PM andyundo Mar 14 2009, 07:39 AM no, no, no that's impossible. A few liters of chemicals can't be more expensive than a lifetime of food and board. And well, for the wrongfully convicted... the odds of being wrongfully accused are rather slim for ordinary citizens... only if you are involved in shady businesses then your chances of being wrongfully accused might increase. That is possibly the worst argument I've ever heard. It is ok to kill people because they were involved in "shady business??!!?" We aren't even talking about capital crimes now. Why don't we just institute the death penalty for everything, if that's the case. You won't be accused unless you are involved in shady business, after all. I wouldn't care if the odds were rather slim (which they aren't) that an ordinary citizen would be wrongly accused of a crime. This is state-sponsored murder we are talking about. We can't afford to take that chance. Are we not a nation of civilized people? (oh, sorry, dumb question) The only thing that increases your chance of being wrongly accused is the color of your skin. Four Elements Mar 14 2009, 09:14 AM AND, the lethal injection itself is very cheap, apparently, but by putting someone on death row, there are thousands of dollars worth of court cases to fight, which cost more than just keeping the criminal locked up for life (we talked about this in RS). Exactly. And not only the court costs of appeals, but simply the fact that inmates stay on Death Row for decades also incurs the same food and board costs that Andy was talking about, and probably at a higher cost too because Death Row inmates are kept isolated and such and not mixed in with the general prison population. Carver? I live in Colombia, a place has actual terrorist factions controlling parts of the country. Colombia has been in civil war for almost 50 years now. We DONT have the death penalty, so maybe it might be just me wanting all these drug-smuggling kidnappers dead.
	http://andyundo.tumblr.com/ <-- My photoblog! Andy is in love... ish...?


Count Carver	Mar 27 2009, 05:23 PM Post #12
Jedi Master of Making Things Sound Dirty Posts: 2,241 Group: Admin Member #5 Joined: December 31, 2004	In that case, the argument changes. I was focusing on American capital punishment. In Colombia, I assume the justice system is different. So not everything I said earlier would necessarily apply (such as the costs of execution). However, something tells me that instituting a death penalty would not solve the problem of terrorist factions that control certain areas. Forgive my complete ignorance of Colombia and its current situation, but it seems to me that a death penalty instituted through a justice system would not do much good against those living outside that system (which would appear to be the case here). Again, I have no clue what the dynamics of all the conflicts are, but it seems to me that these people you do want dead are outside of the law as it is. Carver?
	-Carver?


Four Elements	Mar 28 2009, 08:29 AM Post #13
Fourth Year Posts: 347 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: February 12, 2005	I don't know anything about Colombia either, but wouldn't killing these terrorists make them martyrs? Also; we watched a documentary in RS of people who have been wrongly convicted and sentenced to death, in America. Some people were having their last meal before something came along and proved their innocence. That's just appauling, imo. What about all those who didn't get that chance? There was a guy on it called Earl Washington. He had be arrested for breaking and entering and theft (which he did do when he was drunk) but the police tried putting 4 unsolved murders on him, but charged him with one. This guy had the mental age of a child and he still ended up on death row. He didn't commit the murder- the interview the police had with him, the police were obviously leading him along "Did you kill that woman outside her appartment?" "No." "Don't lie Earl. Did you?" "Yes." "What race was she?" "Black." "No, Earl, what race was she?" "White." They completely directed the conversation. You can't tell me mistakes are unlikely.



Count Carver	Apr 1 2009, 08:31 PM Post #14
Jedi Master of Making Things Sound Dirty Posts: 2,241 Group: Admin Member #5 Joined: December 31, 2004	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1cgHEWG-BA
	-Carver?


andyundo	Apr 13 2009, 11:48 AM Post #15
Photographer/Lover Extraordinaire Posts: 212 Group: Members Member #61 Joined: January 25, 2009	They could have been martyrs 30 years ago when they were actually fighting for a cause. But now it's more like a front. They say that they're fighting for the creation of a left-wing marxist-leninist state but the truth is that now they're just reaping the profits of drug smuggling and kidnapping. I mean, at least people would think twice before they break the law. "Is MY life, really worth this?"
	http://andyundo.tumblr.com/ <-- My photoblog! Andy is in love... ish...?


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